Two Mega Agents Tell How to Score a Nine-Figure Pod Deal
A top CAA and WME rep reveal how to gain the most leverage, own your IP, assess the buyers and understand the post-correction market
Ashley Cullins writes about the agents, lawyers and other dealmakers who make Hollywood work for paid subscribers (every other Tuesday, alternating with Reel AI). She recently dove into L.A.’s production exodus, the coming M&A landscape and why cost-plus deals are dying. You can reach her at ashley@theankler.com
Even if you don’t listen to podcasts, it’s been impossible to ignore the eye-popping news about them of late. Comedian and commentator Joe Rogan made a reported $250 million deal with Spotify in February. The SmartLess trio of Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes and Will Arnett made a three-year, $100 million pact with SiriusXM in January, and the satellite radio/podcasting player followed that up in August with $125 million for Call Her Daddy’s Alex Cooper. Not to be outdone, the Amazon-owned podcast studio Wondery spent the summer doling out major deals to Dax Shepard’s Armchair Expert ($80 million) and Jason and Travis Kelce ($100 million) for their New Heights podcast.
Eight- and nine-figure deals are “back,” as many a headline has blared, but the truth is that they actually never went away. “A lot of these shows that are making headlines right now . . . [they’re] announcing deals now because they were in a deal they made three years ago and the deal came up, and it was time to make a new deal or renew,” says Josh Lindgren, who co-heads CAA’s podcast department, which represents the SmartLess trio as well as TV talent turned podcasters Jesse Tyler Ferguson (Dinner’s on Me) and David Duchovny (Fail Better), among others. “I’m not aware of a show that announced a giant deal in 2021 that came up in the interim and couldn’t find a deal.”
Although podcasting appears to be prone to boom-and-bust waves — the excitement of Spotify’s $400 million investment in the space in 2019 followed by doomsaying in the wake of its 2023 layoffs — the truth is that the industry has steadily grown through every effort to declare it the next big thing or a dying fad. U.S. advertising revenue in podcasts this year will top $2 billion for the first time.
Anyone can start a podcast (and seemingly has); the data heading into 2024 estimated that there are more than three million of them. But for Hollywood and mass audiences, only a handful matter. “If you deliver a show that has a million people listening to it every week, it’s a valuable thing — whether it’s a TV show or a podcast or anything else,” WME’s Ben Davis tells me. He co-leads the agency’s digital group which represents Hollywood talent like Shepard and Amy Poehler (who produces a number of satirical shows such the true crime parody Women Talkin’ ’Bout Murder), as well as podcasting gurus Jay Shetty, Glennon Doyle and Brené Brown. “[Podcasts] are done relatively cheaply, and the talent own the show and own the audience, so they have outsized financial upside.”
Despite reports of the death of podcasting in recent years, there’s money to be made, especially if you’re willing to bet on yourself and launch it on your own. With more talent developing projects and entering the space, from Jon Stewart (The Weekly Show) to Julia Louis-Dreyfus (Wiser Than Me) to Lupita Nyong’o (Mind Your Own) — I wanted to speak with the agents maximizing opportunities for their clients amid such a dynamic market. Davis and Lindgren chatted with me (separately) about the health of the market, what clients want out of a podcast, where the opportunity is and the audio medium’s own pivot to video. I don’t think “vodcast” has taken off yet, and I hope it never does. (UTA was invited to participate in this story as well but declined.)
In this issue, you’ll learn:
What the two agents see as the biggest areas of potential
What major podcast platforms Amazon, iHeart, SiriusXM and Spotify want from talent and what they can do for them
How a podcast is the best direct-to-consumer startup a star can create
What a star has to give up for the chance at a podcast megadeal
Why podcasts’ open nature gives talent leverage against Big Tech platforms
The problems and opportunity created by YouTube’s growing might in the podcast ecosystem
How video is going to change podcasting
A bold prediction for who’s going to enter the market for celebrity podcasts next
Davis and Lindgren’s answers to my questions have been woven together, and our conversations have been edited for length and clarity.
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