Diane Warren: All My Songs Are F*@#able
The 'relentless' songwriter aims for a 16th Oscar nod for her soulful collaboration with H.E.R. and submits to a round of F***, Marry, Kill with her canon
Rob LeDonne writes Notable. He recently interviewed Lainey Wilson about her Twisters hit “Out of Oklahoma,” Elton John and Brandi Carlile about “Never Too Late,” their title song for John’s biodoc, and Maren Morris and Kris Bowers, who collaborated on “Kiss the Sky” for The Wild Robot. You can reach him at rob@theankler.com
Diane Warren, my guest for this week’s edition of Notable, wears a bracelet engraved with a phrase that perfectly synthesizes her passion for the craft of songwriting and her trademark sardonic wit: “Relentless as fuck.”
Warren speaks about the unique piece of jewelry in one of the many brash scenes in the new documentary about her life, aptly titled Diane Warren: Relentless, which premiered last year at SXSW and hits select cinemas Jan. 10 (and streams on MasterClass starting Jan. 16). The movie, featuring praise for the hitmaker from the likes of Jennifer Hudson, Clive Davis, Cher, Common and Jerry Bruckheimer, tracks Warren’s incredible rise and, uh, lack of a process. As she says in the doc, “As soon as someone starts talking about that, I want to kill myself” — a warning I kept in mind before speaking to hear earlier this week.
The year is off to a great start for Warren, 68, as she’s made the Oscar shortlist for best original song with her inspirational ballad “The Journey” — sung by longtime friend H.E.R. — from Tyler Perry’s star-studded World War II drama The Six Triple Eight (streaming on Netflix).
For those counting at home, if Warren clinches a nod on Jan. 17, it’ll be her 16th career nomination. And no, she’s never won, though the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences graced her with an honorary Oscar in 2022. Warren finds her losing streak, if you want to call it that, quite funny. Not that she’s hurting for accolades: Her prolific output over the years has won her an Emmy, a Grammy, two Golden Globes and a well-deserved induction into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. (Oscars nominations voting begins Wednesday, and Grammy voting officially concludes today in preparation for the Feb. 2 ceremony.)
The Golden Globes are Sunday with the troubled confab (see Richard Rushfield’s latest on its challenges here) boasting a variety of music-driven best motion picture nominees in the drama (A Complete Unknown) and comedy/musical categories (Wicked and Emilia Pérez). Original songs vying for a Globe include “El Mal” and “El Camino” from Emilia Pérez; The Last Showgirl theme “Beautiful That Way” courtesy of Miley Cyrus; the electro-driven Challengers bop “Compress/Repress” from Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross; as well as The Wild Robot’s mom anthem “Kiss the Sky,” performed and co-written by former Notable subject Maren Morris.
“Forbidden Road” — from the monkey-starring Robbie Williams biopic Better Man — is also up for a Globe, but it won’t be in the Oscar race. After landing on the shortlist for original song, it was removed last month. According to a statement released by AMPAS’ Music Branch Executive Committee, the song “incorporates material from an existing song that was not written for this film,” alluding to its similarities to the 1973 Jim Croce hit, “I Got a Name.” Forbidden road, indeed.
While the 2025 awards machinery churns, a few superlatives for music in 2024 have already been established: The most streamed Spotify song of the year was Billie Eilish’s “Birds of a Feather,” which flew past Sabrina Carpenter’s “Espresso” for the prize. Meanwhile, according to the RIAA, 65 artists earned their first gold records last year with Taylor Swift’s The Tortured Poets Department the top album of the year. As if I had to tell you that.
Eilish and Swift were barely twinkles in their mothers’ eyes when Warren began perfecting her craft. True to her previous blunt interviews and hilarious acceptance speeches, she was a blast to talk to. Warren is unmatched when it comes to her incredible longevity; her first Oscar nomination came for 1987’s power pop ballad “Nothing’s Gonna Stop Us Now” for Starship from the film Mannequin. Since then, she’s scored nods with a wide range of artists — from country darling LeAnn Rimes to glam rockers Aerosmith — and has charted 33 times in the top 10 of Billboard’s Hot 100, most recently in 2023 for a song with the aforementioned Swift, which of course I had to ask her about.
Is “The Journey” on its way to the Dolby? Only the next two weeks will tell. As Warren says below, “I’m honored to be on the shortlist and hoping I’m on the really short one.”
Rob LeDonne: Hi Diane! Happy New Year! Thank you for taking the time out to talk with me this New Year’s week. It made me think of a very memorable New Year’s Day you had a while ago when Taylor Swift came to your studio and recorded the song you two wrote together, “Say Don’t Go,” which eventually came out on 1989 (Taylor’s Version).
Diane Warren: Oh yeah, you’re right, that was New Year’s 2014.
RL: What do you remember about that day?
DW: Her work ethic is awesome. I relate, because I took one day off during the holidays, you know? And on that day, I basically worked in the morning, so I understand it. But I thought that it was pretty cool that she showed up. We did the song and recorded the demo. And then I kind of forgot about it. And then, next thing I know, it came out [in 2023] and her fans loved it, which felt really good.
RL: So, I’m not going to ask you about your process, because I know you said in your documentary that question is so tired by now.
DW: Well, you know, my process is: I show up, I sit down and work on a song. That’s what I do.
RL: But with so many nominations, I’m wondering if at this point producers and directors come to you when they’re looking for nominations, because you’re like an awards whisperer. Does it work like that?
DW: The songs have to be quality songs, right? I don’t think I get nominated just because I’m me or whatever. The people who decide who gets nominated, they’re the best of the people in film music, you know? They’re not going to nominate something they don’t like. I don’t take it lightly that I get nominated. I’m very honored, and that’s the win for me. I’ve never won 15 times, so it’s kind of funny at this point. I take it with good humor. I’m just happy to be here and in the game. I think this song for The Six Triple Eight is one of the best songs I’ve ever written in my life, not even just for a movie. Would it be fun to win? Yeah, it would be. I think I’d probably faint or something. Or go, “Is that the wrong envelope?”
RL: You said in an Academy chat that when H.E.R. cut “The Journey” it was “one of the best fucking vocals I’ve ever heard in my life.” You’ve heard everybody. What made it so special?
DW: Yeah, I’ve worked with Whitney (Houston), I’ve worked with Celine (Dion), I’ve been blessed and lucky enough to work with the best singers on the planet. But when Gabby (Gabriella Sarmiento Wilson, aka H.E.R.) came in and sang “The Journey” that day, the notes where she went to vocally just astounded me. When she hit that high part at the end, we were all in the studio going, “Oh my God, we witnessed something great.”
RL: H.E.R. won a 2021 Oscar for best original song — for “Fight For You” from Judas and the Black Messiah — and she beat you! I’m assuming there’s no bad blood there, since you knew her since she was 15-years-old.
DW: Yeah, this is what was so cool. I was blown away by how great she was at 15. But we kind of lost touch and then it was kind of out of the blue that she hit me on Instagram and goes, “I’m thinking it’s time that we worked together” — and I had just written “The Journey.” It’s weird how these things happen. The thing is, Gabby writes her own songs. She doesn’t need me. But I sat at the piano and I played her the song and she was really blown away and said, “I have to do this. I’m doing this today.” And literally, that day she did the piano part, played guitar and she sang that insane vocal. From there she went back to New York and arranged the strings and finished the record. But what’s really cool is the song may be about the movie, but it’s also about our journey, and Gabby’s journey and my journey.
RL: That’s the power of good songwriting — where it’s very specific, yet you’re capturing a universal feeling.
DW: That’s when it’s done right. It has to be a song that works with that movie, but also works outside it as well. It may be the soundtrack to the movie, and yet it can be your own soundtrack, too.
RL: Did the movie or the lyrics come first? Do you go to a trove of ideas and scraps of lines and go from there?
DW: Not at all. What happened is I saw my friend Keri Selig, who’s one of the producers of the movie, at an event. She said she had to tell me about this movie, so we went into a room and she showed me the sizzle reel and then she walked me through the scenes. I’ve never written a song for a movie that way. I usually see a script or something. But this was scene by scene by scene. The next day, I just started playing those chords, which just pulled at my heart, and I started singing, and the chorus came. Some songs are harder than others, but this came like it was almost like a gift. I sat there and watched it write itself. It’s a strange thing. I can’t explain it. I was telling Gabby, “Don’t hate me, but you’re gonna be singing this when you’re 80 years old.”
RL: Your career has taken you from the album era to the streaming era. A part of me thinks the big span of genres we’re seeing this year on the Academy shortlist relates to the fact that everybody can listen to anything they want at the drop of a hat as opposed to a static album collection. Do you agree?
DW: Everybody can hear everything, so there’s no genres anymore. That’s what’s so cool. And I’ve always written in different genres, so I love that. But to answer your question, I don’t know if the streaming caused that, because there’s always variety. Even with a song from Will Ferrell’s Eurovision being nominated a couple years back. But with my music, I don’t take any of it for granted. I’m honored to be on the shortlist and hoping I’m on the really short one.
RL: Which writers have inspired you?
DW: All of the Brill Building writers: Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil, Carole King, Burt Bacharach and Hal David, Mike Stoller and Jerry Lieber. The Beatles, of course, you know, were a big influence. Stevie Wonder. Everything I heard influenced me.
RL: When it comes to your Oscar history, if there was one song you thought you definitely should have won for, what would you pick? My personal choice would be Celine Dion’s “Because You Loved Me,” from Up Close and Personal, which lost to a song from Evita in 1997.
DW: I remember being really bummed out that I didn’t win for that song. I thought that’d be the one. I remember I went with Clive Davis to the Oscars that year, and after we went to Jerry’s Deli, and I ate like four orders of french fries to drown my sorrows.
RL: It’s always good to drown your sorrows in french fries.
DW: But “Because You Love Me” became a legit standard. I remember being up against Titanic with “How Do I Live” (from 1997’s Con Air), and it’s like, I might as well get drunk because I’m not going to go on stage.
RL: Are you familiar with the game Fuck, Marry, Kill?
DW: I’ve heard of it, but I don’t really know it.
RL: I’m gonna choose three of your nominated songs, and you have to tell me which one you would fuck, which one you’d marry and which one you’d kill.
DW: But what if I don't want to kill any of my songs? Can I just fuck them all? I’m not trying to get married to anybody. I just wanna fuck all of them.
RL: Well, the three I was going to ask you about were “I Don’t Wanna Miss a Thing,” “Nothing’s Gonna Stop Us Now” and “How Do I Live?”
DW: Yeah, I’d fuck all of ’em.
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